Wine Conversations: How Do We Get More People Interested In Wine? (IV)

Short answer... there is no short answer. But I give some ideas of various ways we can try at least.

Welcome to our very first "Wine Conversations", a new feature spotlighting a wine-related topic and transforming it into an evolving conversation between multiple wine writers across the whole of Substack.

This month's topic is one of the pressing for the wine industry in 2025, given the ongoing decline in consumption, sales, visits to wineries, and as the alcoholic beverage of choice for most Americans and younger generation consumers:

How Do We Get More People Interested in Wine?

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I want to start off by thanking

Dave Baxter

for inviting me to the conversation. You can read the first few installments below.

Wine Conversations: How Do We Get More People Interested in Wine? (I)

Wine Conversations: How Do We Get More People Interested In Wine? (II)

Wine Conversations: How Do We Get More People Interested in Wine? (III)

So far the consensus is: make wine fun, pair it with things that people can relate to, like music, movies, comics. Blending competitions, I love this idea- there are blending bars throughout America, they are always a blast, especially for groups. Relating beer styles to wine styles- yes! The ideas have been great so far, I highly recommend reading all three of the above articles.

First off- things that must be addressed first¹

Those of us in this industry get so obsessed with numbers and graphs that we forget the basics. The most basic thing about wine is that it is a luxury product.

Americans are struggling right now to keep food on the table and bills paid. I am talking about the middle-class families living in the nice suburbs. These families now need to have 3-4 jobs to stay afloat. You cannot live off most incomes in America anymore. A two-bedroom apartment in the Indianapolis suburbs costs $2200-2800. Indianapolis is a large Midwestern city with 880,000 people. Minimum wage here is still $7.25. Most retail jobs are $12 an hour, servers $2.13 an hour. And almost no one tips anymore, according to all my friends in service industry jobs. If you have chronic health issues, good luck. You won't have money for anything but essentials. We unfortunately need to keep this in mind when we start talking about how to get people into wine. If we don't understand people's finances first, the talk is pointless.

Let’s get to it

Everyone is super worried about the younger generation not being into wine. Well, honestly, who was into wine in their 20s? I had great wines in my life since I was a child thanks to my dad being a collector. Yet in my 20s, I only drank wine with family. I drank beer or Red Bull vodka when I was being social (I was very social in my 20s, which is funny since I'm a hermit now). Why? Because it was cheap, easy, and there were awesome beers at most bars and restaurants in America. What is there not at these places? Good wine or affordable wine. And, when I worked at recording studios and attended concerts... you think wine was available? Get real. It was beer and well liquor drinks. Also, don’t come at me about the canned wine segment of the market.²

Substack appropriate drinking photos of me in my 20's. I drank beer or RedBull vodka.

Again, why am I telling you all this? We forget reality and obsess over the younger generation. We should chill. I have worked at wine retail shops on and off for over a decade. I rarely get a customer in their 20s. When I say rarely, maybe one in every 45 customers is under 30. At a basic level, it's because they have more disposable income. Their lifestyle and weekends have changed. I know there are alarming statistics. But, I believe people develop an interest in wine later in life.

The majority of my customers (in various states, I should add) have a budget of $15 or less. Most supermarket wines at those prices are mass-produced garbage. I wouldn't even use them for cooking. I know I am harsh, but it isn’t like Europe, where you can find good deals and good wine at this price point. Here, good wines at those prices are few and far between. To find them, you must go to a small wine shop, not a grocery store or Target. But that happens to be where people grab a cheap bottle. Right off the bat, we are working twice as hard to convince consumers to please give wine a second chance. That one bottle they purchased, split between two people, may only last them one night. Next time they’re at the store, they skip the wine. Instead, they go to the liquor aisle and grab a bottle of gin or vodka. It costs a bit more, but it will last them two weeks or longer. Or they grab a 6-pack of beer for about the same price. They taste better to the consumer; can you blame them for not getting the cheap wine? I can’t.

So how on earth do we do it?

For one, we need to stop overanalyzing it. We must stop boring our audience with grim statistics. And we must avoid repeating what 30 other wine writers wrote this week. That is a dead end unless your audience is only wine professionals. We must accept that we cannot win over everyone. There are many extenuating circumstances beyond our control. Right now, doctors with agendas and influencers are spreading insane lies about alcohol. It's insane that anyone listens to social media. Not to mention the N/A market is trying to dominate our conversations.³

If you work in a retail shop or at a winery, you are in the best position to help. You set the stage for people to remember how much they enjoy wine. The conversations, the company, the food, etc. This keeps customers returning. You listen to your customers. If they only like $15 and under Cabernets from California, actually find them those wines. Those are not the customers who want to explore various grapes or regions. Know your audience. And please do not recommend a wine if you don’t actually like it. Those customers remember you. If you lie to them, they will never trust you again. That will hurt the wine industry. I run into customers all around Indianapolis, and I don’t go out often. They always remember me and what I recommend and thank me. You’ll know the customers you can get into new regions and grapes. If you cannot figure this out, please stop working in wine retail.

I know I will get a lot of blowback on this one. But American restaurants outside of major cities have awful wine lists. I rarely get a glass of wine when I go out to eat. I opt for a beer, a cocktail, or even an iced tea. Wine is far too expensive by the glass at restaurants for me to actually enjoy it, so I avoid it. Plus, there is rarely a wine I enjoy on the list at a price that I deem reasonable enough to get. This is a huge reason restaurants don’t get as many people ordering wine by the glass. The customers know their beloved (cringe) Meiomi wine. It's $14 a glass but $18 a bottle at Total Wine. Customers now understand how insane the markup is. I don’t see this changing. But, if you want wine sales to rise in this sector, you have a lot of work to do. Make the wine list user friendly. Put in descriptions of the wines or what you suggest pairing them with and why. This may help people get a feel for what a white Burgundy or an Oregon Pinot Noir tastes like. I'm glad this isn't my sector. It's not my problem to solve. I do think they can get a little more descriptive about the wines.

A simple way to make a big impact is to bring good wine as a hostess gift when you visit a friend. Don’t bring a wine you know that person always drinks. Get them into a new region or grape. This is a huge area where we can get more people into wine. Over the age of 35, most of us become homebodies; we don’t go out as much because we're tired (or I am). But we may have dinner at a friend's or holiday and birthday get-togethers. Those are key moments where you can nerd out a bit with wine and get a conversation started with a group of people. If you're a nerd like me, you can even hold an impromptu wine tasting, a blind tasting, or some trivia. This makes wine fun for everyone involved and it gives them a positive memory to attribute to that wine.

What I am doing with Survives on Wine to help

Visuals are super impactful. I make my visual tasting notes that I paint with the actual wine. This has been a huge hit with my friends and subscribers who are not industry professionals. It gives them a clear, concise visual tasting note. It's free of the WSET fluff that only WSET students care about. It makes wine fun and easy to digest. You can read my tasting notes, observe the color of the wine, and then make a decision about whether it seems like one you’d like to try. Simple and easy, which is what people want. Another visual thing I do to help teach about Portuguese grapes is my infographics. I know many people do wine infographics, and there is a reason they sell so well. For those trying to understand a new grape, a visual provides significant help. They see the fruit it may taste like, where the grapes are grown, and get a feel for whether it is something they want to try.

Always incorporate things people can actually do at home at no extra cost. I do two series where I pair wine with cooking/baking, and in one of them, I add in an album as well. The 'a wine, a recipe, and an album' series I do is definitely my most loved. I get many private messages about people drinking the wine, making the food, and listening to the album. These are everyday people, not wine professionals. Many people drink wine while they cook. Not everyone thinks that is okay when so much content is out there pressuring people to eat the right foods with the right wine. They are being told left and right that pairings are everything. Listen, a good wine and food pairing is awesome, but at the end of the day, drink what you want with the food you are eating. Please enjoy wine while you cook dinner. Turn up the volume on your iPhone and blast your favorite album. Make the little things you do daily, like cooking dinner, more enjoyable with wine.

I also must add this: I started my YouTube series, Tastes and Toasts. I quickly learned it's essential to make fun of yourself. Stop being so serious. I mispronounce many Portuguese words. I took Spanish, and it's killing me while I try to learn Portuguese. So apologize, laugh at yourself, and ask someone to correct you. Wine needs to be silly and fun if you want more people to get into it.

To recap

1. Chill out if 20 somethings aren’t drinking wine, most of us didn’t.

2. Know your customers, listen to them. If they want specific grapes stop pushing them towards similar but different ones. Learn who you can actually get into new grapes and who you cannot. This is key. For them to come back and trust you, you need to earn their trust.

3. Restaurants need to improve their wine lists and prices, customers are smarter then you give them credit for.

4. Always bring fun wine to group get togethers. Also have trivia questions in mind, maybe a blind tasting of two wines you bring. Whatever you do, get enthusiastic when you share wine with friends. Make memories with the wines.

5. Keep thinking outside the box. Visual tasting notes instead of WSET ones. Pair wine with music and cooking.

6. Make fun of yourself when you mispronounce regions and winery names (like I do all the time).

I hope you enjoyed my very long winded and opinionated take on our wine conversation!

George Nordahl

is next up in this extremely fun conversation.

1. Most of my subscribers are not actually in the wine industry. I write for everyone, but more so people who want to learn about wine. More specifically Portuguese wine. So this background is given so that my readers understand things that those of us in the wine industry already know.

2. I have tried so many canned wines. I cannot get behind this category. I much prefer boxed wine. Canned wines taste weird. The ones I can sort of get behind are canned wine cocktails. Ramona would be who I recommend if this is something you want to try.

3. Listen, good for those out there trying to be all hype about this segment of the market. I work in wine, I absolutely do not work in the N/A beverage sector. If that is what a customer is looking for I give my honest opinion since I work in wine retail. I have tasted upwards of 70 various N/A beverages on the market and would never suggest anyone spend their hard earned money on them. Outside of a few bubbles which you can make faux mimosas with (and they taste NOTHING like wine) it is all expensive grape juice… that tastes like watered down funky juice. Grab seltzer or tonic water, juice and a lime. Call it a day. A much more delightful day at that.